From: "Russell D. Hoffman" <>
Subject: How to protect nukes from low-level aerial attack + more on Hoerner's hogwash...
January 4th, 2001

Jim Hoerner is as arrogant as any pro-nuker I've ever met (and I've met a lot).  My comments are in [[[ triple brackets -- rdh ]]]:

At 02:47 PM 1/4/02 , Jim Hoerner wrote:
[note: replies to Peter, Russell, and Magnu here]


You crack me up.


[[[ The above doesn't answer a thing, as with Hoerner's past responses.  I'm surprised, of course, that he finds being called unAmerican funny, but we have it in black and white.  In fact, I have no idea what he finds funny about anything I've said at all.  He's not real, he has not unmasked himself; he is not engaging in a fair quest for truth, where the value of what he says can be weighed with the rest of his reputation and the body of his work.  Also, he clearly has a variety of hidden agendas -- nothing else can explain why he flip-flops on so many issues.  He does not answer questions honestly.  He does not answer most questions whatsoever. -- rdh ]]]

At 04:38 PM 1/4/02 , Jim Hoerner wrote:
Nuclear weapons
aren't really relevant, and waste isolation is more of a political problem
than a technical one,...

[[[ Nuclear weapons can be used against nuclear power plants, making them totally relevant (and there are many other links between the two).  Here's just one example: Both nuclear power plants and nuclear weapons have the potential to kill millions of innocent people with radiation, as mentioned in the reference I cited in one of my recent posts.  And waste isolation IS a significant technical problem.  The enormous proposed 78-wheeled articulated trucks to move the waste (painted blue in the official drawings) are terrorist targets, and if you shrink down the size of the transport vehicles so that they aren't so obvious, then you've got many more trips -- perhaps 500,000 instead of 100,000 -- and thus many more chances for accidents, and smaller containment structures around the waste, too.  And once the waste gets to wherever it's going, it's still going to be a bubbling cauldron of hellish radioactive terror in 10,000 years, and that's if everything goes right!  If it leaks into the air or groundwater, cancers will develop downwind and downstream.  But to Hoerner, with his unchangeable mindset, it's mainly a "political problem".  Sure it's a political problem too, because nobody in their right mind would want the waste, but that fact is hardly the only problem with all known waste storage possibilities.  The main problem with them all is technological -- they won't work.  Yucca Mountain was America's last resort (the team studied dozens of alternatives carefully and considered thousands of suggestions).  But Yucca Mountain is both a technical fiasco AND a political boondoggle.  Also, it's used up most of our funds for finding a solution.  But the worst thing about Yucca Mountain is that, in the decades it's taking society to realize it's a crazy idea, the high level radioactive waste piles that are supposed to eventually be stored there continue to grow and grow.  Meanwhile, spokespeople for all the nuke plants tell all the citizens who live near those plants that the waste will be outta there real, real soon.  But it's a LIE.  Hoerner calling the waste problem mostly a political problem is his attempt to define things however he needs to, to suit his agendas. -- rdh ]]]

At 04:38 PM 1/4/02 , Jim Hoerner also wrote:
Chernobyl was a catastrophe with a terrible human and
environmental toll.

[[[ Funny, this same guy said only 30-something people died.  That's sad, but an overturned bus kills that many people -- it's hardly the sort of tragedy that would be described as Hoerner now describes Chernobyl.  Of course, his current description is far more accurate. -- rdh ]]]

At 04:38 PM 1/4/02 , Jim Hoerner also wrote:
Wind is cool.

[[[ If he grasped that, then why does he like nukes so much?  Perhaps he's only interested in paying lip-service to renewable energy and low-level radiation dangers, and anything else that doesn't fit into his nuclear dogma.  Thousands of large off-shore windmills is not only technologically feasible, but the first place to build them is offshore around the nuclear power plants, where the forest of large spinning blades would protect the plants from low-level aerial attack!  And we wouldn't have to worry about the blades coming loose from the wind turbines and striking the plants because, according to Mr. Hoerner and his "co-hornets", the plants are impervious to everything. -- rdh ]]]


[[[ For Jim Hoerner, low-level radiation is harmless and nuclear power plants are wonderful things, and there's really no need for debate, no need to read books about nuclear power plants as weapons for the enemy, it's all just gesturing, posturing, and politics.  This, despite all the decades of advances in possible alternatives for generating those precious electrons in wires which we all love so much.  He's out to "prove" his point any way he can think of, even if it means making up fake, spur-of-the-moment facts, or failing to learn or acknowledge real facts.  His list of accidents in energy production was laughably biased and incomplete, for example.

His goal, obviously, is to destroy these forums as much as possible, both by his sophomoric postings of his various "know nukes" irrationalities, and by his constant efforts to simply irritate the other participants, who I'm sure would all be happy to see a real debate, if the pro-nukers ever cared to muster one.  I think everyone who is not happy with the use of nuclear and/or fossil fuels wants a national debate.  But no one who supports nuclear power wants a fair debate, and so what Hoerner does is not serious debating -- it's more like Red-baiting.  Every time the facts are laid out for all to see, the pro-nuke position appears foolish and irresponsible -- and in these days of heightened awareness of America's many vulnerabilities to terrorists, wasting time playing games Hoerner does is strictly unAmerican.

I think we can all be reasonably sure Jim Hoerner has a solid connection to the nuclear industry.  Perhaps he is CIA, maybe an independent contractor, maybe just a guy who owes someone else a favor and thinks he can stand the heat (a real man would come out and show himself by now).  The idea that Mr. Hoerner actually thinks anyone who might ever read his posts will believe his only interest in the subject is that he wants a clean environment for his children is the most laughable of all his many absurd claims. 

Sign me just another victim of his abuse...

Russell D. Hoffman
Carlsbad, CA
-- rdh ]]]



On December 25th, 2001 a rented single-engine airplane, also known as a "propeller-propelled grenade", piloted by Jamul Mohammed, 26, crashed less than 1/2 mile from San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station in southern California (Sources: SD U-T, NC Times).  The next day, another single-engine airplane crashed outside of Atlanta, Georgia, getting hung up in overhead power lines.  (Source: CNN).  On New Year's Day, 2002, another single-engined airplane crashed into the global financing unit of IBM headquarters in Armonk, New York, not far from Indian Point Nuclear Power Station (Source: Insider Weekly).